Hello people! Yes, I'm back in the land of the West (with no forests like my beloved Hornbill land) into the realm of studies and the exciting church! Well, there are still some things from back home that still lingers in my mind. From the previous post, the one before the YouTube video, I've got a couple of responses both in email form and also from the people I talked to when I'm back home. I do not understand their concepts at all, nor do I comprehend where they got that kind of thinking from.
To recap, I was talking about going back home to my home church and not feeling rather comfortable anymore due to my moving on to another church and also, a different movement of the Holy Spirit than the previous denomination I was in (gosh I hate that word) doesn't have and doesn't really believe in. It's not that they don't really believe in. They just have no knowledge about it, doesn't want to comprehend and accept and part of it and regard it as evil.
Well, people back home asked me which church I have been going and I just told them that I am going CHC which is an awesome church and that God led me there and it's not my own choice. God revived me there. The statement of God leading me there cause them to restrict their tongue from saying further negative stuff and discouragement of going there. They only resort to "warn" me about "dangers" which weren't any dangers at all. (Like I said before, they regard those things as evil so they think it's dangerous.) My parents were quite ok with it and I think they left the decision to me and somehow I got the impression that they trust me in this and perhaps God's glory shone from me through my behaviours and all that, a change that they see which caused them to trust in my decision. Even my mum was so sure about my prayers concerning her health. (she had been sick and having flu and all that for quite some time) She approached me once online asking me to pray for her and apparently she got completely healed that day. Then she got sick again after a trip to Kuching. Haish.
The thing I wanted to talk about was what people were telling and asking me. One was giving me a sort of a bad expression saying how come I don't stay loyal to Methodist. Then I told the other one I wanted to get baptised in CHC and he said why do I have to do it because if I get baptised there it means I am a member of that church. The more I type now, the more I find it ridiculous, what they are thinking. The other one, I have been forwarding my posts to him, replied after my that previous post saying that although he has been in touch with the HS and His work and all that, he still go back to Methodist just because it is the root, the "origin" of our Christianity and that we should still acknowledge it.
MAN, IT'S RIDICULOUS!
I believe in God and God alone.
Church, the body of Christ is the body of believers and not the denomination, not the building, not the association.
All denominations worship one God and one God alone. I hate the division and the disregard of it. I do not look down on Methodist or other traditional churches and worship methods. All worship methods worship one God and each one glorifies God. To restrict the "correct worship method" is the work of the religious spirit, of legalism. I have my own methods, you have yours. We each answer to God alone. Who are you to decide and judge?
Baptism is a public announcement of your commitment to God and that we are included in the family of God. There's no such concept as belonging to this church or that. It's the churches nowadays making it that way which is a totally wrong concept. Yes, there are certain "membership" thing to keep track on the people going to the church and getting to know them and all that. But to make it like a gangster gang-ship?? It doesn't matter what church we go to, as long as we go to church. But to make it like must go to THIS church?? It's wrong.
I move according to the leading of the Holy Spirit and not of man's words. God led me to CHC, I'll stay put. That's where I'm planted and growing roots already.
The movement of the Holy Spirit doesn't disregard the basics of Christianity which includes the grace of God, the basic Gospel of the bible, God's love and forgiveness, Jesus' sacrifice and sanctification of sins and sinful nature.
Denominations are just names that people give. I has become a division which is bad.
You have issues about the Speaking in Tongues and other manifestations of the spirit, it's your own issue with God. All of that is biblical (check my archives, I have all scriptures concerning it there). I do not force you to embrace it, so please back off and stop discouraging people from coming closer to God.
The issue of supreme loyalty to a denomination is a stupid belief. I believe in one God and one God alone, the God of the trinity. God created the universe, Jesus redeemed us from death of sin and the Holy Spirit is here to empower us and to help us live a powerful, power-filled life for God and to shine for Him.
I follow the HS, go to the church God wants me to be in (HS is God too by the way) and grow there. I cannot grow in a Methodist church anymore (except perhaps Damansara Utama Methodist but God didn't lead me there). And another thing I found out: I don't grow dependently on the church I attend. I grow from the Christian books I read and the time I spent with God as God leads and teaches me personally and not through sermons and CG only.
This is where I stand, this is what I believe. I believe in the "loyalty" to God and His leading and not in denominations. That mentality has created such division on the universal body of Christ. I wonder when will people wake up.
5 comments:
Well explained as a Christian, Dory! You make me proud of the faith.
No need for long biblical theology or returning to verses to back it up. Christianity is as simple as a relationship with God and the best of what God wants for your life and your purpose in His plans for you. Denominations are a man made thing with man being stupid and putting his own beliefs in place of God, leading to all different divisions among the one truth and the one truth only that Jesus died for our sins and that there is a place beyond this earth beyond our wildest dreams.
Well written and am very proud of your spiritual maturity. I'm not spiritually mature but your understanding of what is and what isn't shows that you are.
Praise the Lord for what He has shown and taught me. And from my previous post http://militaryofchrist.blogspot.com/2009/06/movement-of-holy-spirit-from-church.html
that is where denominations appears. One cannot accept the new truth that the HS shows. They think theirs is the ultimate already while God is still restoring other things which originally are there already but got lost. Humans hold on to their denominations, the truth of their time when God is already bringing in others and they get left behind and still being prideful until today. Sad case. But it doesn't mean that they don't go to heaven. Just that they will miss out in God's other works which is so much exciting and fulfilling! :D
Sorry ...
Actually you probably dont get what i mean.... I never said that I will stick myself to the tradision of Methodist. I choose to follow His way , what is God actually doing in this world.
And I tell you yes we should acknowledge God in Methodist... Why? Actually you have answered yourself. You told me that church is actually made up of people, and you think that God is not doing anything in Methodist? He is definitely doing something...
You told me that you believe in the will of God. Everything in this world serve his purpose. And now, you wan to tell me that Methodist is not part of God's will, when people are changed of their life in the church, people are coming back to God to the church ,even today?
God has his own timing... for Methodist too.
God said remember your root...
Where is your root?... and do i ask you to STAY at your root?
Stop comparing Methodist and other church... Stop using the word "ridiculous" against other church in your blog.
If you really wan any church to be a part of God's latest plan , help the church, and stop saying ridiculous comments that is of yourself.
I thank God that i was born again in Christ through Methodist, because Methodist , by the grace of God, had guided me through my walk with God, and it has been a fruitful and amazing walk of my life time, especially in the aspect of Maturity ( your relationship with God ) and I know even that Holy Spirit was that for me even before I experienced the manisfestation of the Him....
You told me that "To restrict the "correct worship method" is the work of the religious spirit, of legalism." I agree with you, but tell me what is the correct worship method to you?
but before that what does it mean by Worship to you?
and, why do you wan to baptize at CHC? Will you wan to be baptized again after you found a church which is better than CHC?
I dont tell you that you should not be baptized at CHC. I just wan to remind you of your intention to be baptized in CHC. If it is the relative comparison of churches drives your intention. Then, i think it is not a very good reason. But, if the intention ,pleases our God then go ahead...
Another thing, you said" I cannot grow in a Methodist church anymore (except perhaps Damansara Utama Methodist but God didn't lead me there)".
with this statement, which party are you blaming when you cannot grow? You yourself or Methodist?
And i presume your answer is the later one( again back to your statement ). So, you mean you cant GROW in Methodist except DUMC(Dream center). So, indirectly you are blaming Methodist of your stagnant growth... Let me tell you, Maturity and the gift of the Holy Spirit is totally different thing. Maturity comes when you totally summit yourself to God, not a church, for the church is made up of people of God. So, we still can grow no matter where we go... There is no short cut to Heaven.... So,better dont simply judge a church because God has a good plan for everyone in His own timing. It is between us and God alone.
BTW, i hope you still remember who is the one who founded Methodist? John Wesley. He himself also experienced the manisfestation of the HS.
so, are you blaming the founder of Methodist or the people of the Methodist regarding the condition of the church now?
I believe the origin of Methodist can be at par with other churches, for the founder had never suppressed the teaching of HS. It is the people of the church which makes the differences.
Personally I do not want this to become an argument. I stated my views and if you want to go into details, I can.
First and foremost, I never condemned Methodist or any other traditional churches. I never disregard God’s movement in traditional churches. (I thought I made it very clear already) Each church offers different things but the same Gospel, each church has its own style which suits different people and I never said or stereotype any to be the ultimate, to be the “correct” way and this is the same concerning what I said about worship styles. If you want me to talk about my view of worship, I need to write it as another post because it will be long as I want to explain it all to omit doubts and questions and hopefully it can help everyone understand my view of worship which I am still learning more and still perfecting with the help of the Holy Spirit. But all in all, in short, worship is freestyle meaning everyone should be allowed to freely express themselves as it is between themselves and God when they worship but then there is also a limitations as we have to preserve the order of the church. Example can be like people of the Charismatic stream don’t go to a traditional church that doesn’t practice the speaking of tongues and speak in tongues loudly, disruption the whole service.
Concerning “Remembering your root” perhaps I do not get to understand what you explained and thus an apology from me. What I view the phrase of “remember your root” is to remember who we are and what our purpose is which is children of God and our life is for Him. It is not ideally where we are from and to keep staying loyal to that denominations when God is leading on to other pastures. The past is history which is important but to stay in the past and not move forward is a problem. I acknowledge my past in the Methodist church, I do not despise it. I am merely moving forward to where God leads me on.
My intention to be baptized in CHC is to properly renew my covenant with God because my previous baptism is done without my own choosing because I was really young and this time, to me, is the real thing and the church where I come from would not allow me to do so. Some would say that it’s nothing and that it’s the heart that matters most but I felt the need. And it is insulting to see you talk of me wanting baptism for that purpose: being baptized for the sake of the excitement of being in a new church.
I say that I can’t grow in a Methodist church anymore and there are some very valid reasons. As I said before, different churches offers different things (and again, with the same bible and same gospel, same God.). And I’ve already said, “I don't grow dependently on the church I attend. I grow from the Christian books I read and the time I spent with God as God leads and teaches me personally and not through sermons and CG only.” And I do believe that it is clear that I never place any judgment on any churches. I never blamed the founder (I never touched on him) for the condition. The reasons of the state of the church, I do not want to specify because who I am to blame on anyone? It’s all up to God to revive and move, and it’s all up to the people to let God move and follow the wind. All along I’m only saying that I am moving on and growing in other pastures.
Your last statement, “I believe the origin of Methodist can be at par with other churches, for the founder had never suppressed the teaching of HS. It is the people of the church which makes the differences.” is very correct. It’s all up to the people of the church which makes all the differences.
I don't think the post is about hammering certain church nor denomination..it's just the author's personal conviction that she doesn't place denomination higher than where it should be...I agree 100% with that.
Denominations are man made structure - has and is still serving the needs of believers world wide, that's fine. Some (denominations) unfortunately have become so excluvise in their actions and conducts that it demands unrealistic loyalty. Their mistake is to place things which are electives (worship style for example) as being theological absolutes..and people who disagreed are looked down upon. Worse, if a person leaves the particular denomination (for whatever reason),the person is deemed as a castaway or traitor.
I am now believing that we do not get to choose the church we go to. God is the one leading...wherever that is, all glory be to Him.
Post a Comment